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	<title>Comments on: Why Transit Used to be Profitable and Isn&#8217;t Now</title>
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	<link>http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/why-transit-used-to-be-profitable-and-isnt-now/</link>
	<description>Peter Christensen's Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:25:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Last Week&#039;s Links: First Edition &#171; Gateway Streets</title>
		<link>http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/why-transit-used-to-be-profitable-and-isnt-now/comment-page-1/#comment-6604</link>
		<dc:creator>Last Week&#039;s Links: First Edition &#171; Gateway Streets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/?p=335#comment-6604</guid>
		<description>[...] According to Peter Christensen, Basically, any city that’s building a light rail or subway line and not dramatically increasing the zoning around it is throwing money away. (What’s In Peter’s Head) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] According to Peter Christensen, Basically, any city that’s building a light rail or subway line and not dramatically increasing the zoning around it is throwing money away. (What’s In Peter’s Head) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Hubble</title>
		<link>http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/why-transit-used-to-be-profitable-and-isnt-now/comment-page-1/#comment-1412</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Hubble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/?p=335#comment-1412</guid>
		<description>Peter - 

I stumbled across this post, and just got started rambling...

Fare collection time seems to only be an issue with the &quot;moderately successful&quot; American bus systems. Most, alas, have a long way to go to get there. In Silicon Valley, buses are rarely delayed by fare collection. (Most riders have &quot;flash passes&quot; of some sort or another and the ridership volume is quite low.)  However, the transit system is a poster child of how billions of dollars done &quot;almost&quot; right is not much better than nothing done at all.  There are a couple dozen transit agencies in the bay area, each with different fare structures rules and schedules. This results in curious service where buses stop at train stations - just not any time near the time trains stop. Then you have a Silicon Valley Light Rail system that goes from major residential areas to office parks in a nice circuitous route that makes it take longer than biking. And then, it just misses its target. (A set of office towers has a nice pedestrian-friendly street level  entrance close to the light rail.  But alas, the rail station is on the opposite site of a 8-lane road with no crossing nearby. Oops!)

Compared to this type of transit, New York&#039;s 2nd Avenue line is a no brainer.  Lexington Avenue is almost always packed.  The new line could easily be one of the top 5 lines in the United States.  Even its &quot;net new&quot; traffic would probably be greater than any other proposed line in the US.

Today, people probably make more &quot;vehicle&quot; trips than they did in transit&#039;s heyday - in many cases, they are so isolated that the have to. Could a transit system capture this?  What if we flipped the fare collection?  Make all transit lines free, but require the payment of a cash toll for every street traveled. (And have a single toll booth that requires waiting in line and then getting out of the car to insert cash.)  Parking, of course, would also require a cash outlay - at all destinations.  And due to pollution we could prohibit internal combustion engines within cities and require electric engines that need to be charged (for a fee) before each trip. And while we are at it, the vehicles should be made &quot;public&quot;, so anybody could just grab a car on the street and take it to their destination.  

It seems ludicrous to force the current state of transit on &quot;car travel&quot;, but the competitive environment does show the modern challenges. The transit systems of today are not significantly &quot;improved&quot; from the turn of the century. However, back then, the primary &quot;competition&quot; would be walking and coaches - neither of which were feasible for long-term long-distance commuting.  Transit systems that were integral to the lives of large populations were taken over by governments, while others were left to die. As a government service, does farebox collection really make sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; </p>
<p>I stumbled across this post, and just got started rambling&#8230;</p>
<p>Fare collection time seems to only be an issue with the &#8220;moderately successful&#8221; American bus systems. Most, alas, have a long way to go to get there. In Silicon Valley, buses are rarely delayed by fare collection. (Most riders have &#8220;flash passes&#8221; of some sort or another and the ridership volume is quite low.)  However, the transit system is a poster child of how billions of dollars done &#8220;almost&#8221; right is not much better than nothing done at all.  There are a couple dozen transit agencies in the bay area, each with different fare structures rules and schedules. This results in curious service where buses stop at train stations &#8211; just not any time near the time trains stop. Then you have a Silicon Valley Light Rail system that goes from major residential areas to office parks in a nice circuitous route that makes it take longer than biking. And then, it just misses its target. (A set of office towers has a nice pedestrian-friendly street level  entrance close to the light rail.  But alas, the rail station is on the opposite site of a 8-lane road with no crossing nearby. Oops!)</p>
<p>Compared to this type of transit, New York&#8217;s 2nd Avenue line is a no brainer.  Lexington Avenue is almost always packed.  The new line could easily be one of the top 5 lines in the United States.  Even its &#8220;net new&#8221; traffic would probably be greater than any other proposed line in the US.</p>
<p>Today, people probably make more &#8220;vehicle&#8221; trips than they did in transit&#8217;s heyday &#8211; in many cases, they are so isolated that the have to. Could a transit system capture this?  What if we flipped the fare collection?  Make all transit lines free, but require the payment of a cash toll for every street traveled. (And have a single toll booth that requires waiting in line and then getting out of the car to insert cash.)  Parking, of course, would also require a cash outlay &#8211; at all destinations.  And due to pollution we could prohibit internal combustion engines within cities and require electric engines that need to be charged (for a fee) before each trip. And while we are at it, the vehicles should be made &#8220;public&#8221;, so anybody could just grab a car on the street and take it to their destination.  </p>
<p>It seems ludicrous to force the current state of transit on &#8220;car travel&#8221;, but the competitive environment does show the modern challenges. The transit systems of today are not significantly &#8220;improved&#8221; from the turn of the century. However, back then, the primary &#8220;competition&#8221; would be walking and coaches &#8211; neither of which were feasible for long-term long-distance commuting.  Transit systems that were integral to the lives of large populations were taken over by governments, while others were left to die. As a government service, does farebox collection really make sense?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy K</title>
		<link>http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/why-transit-used-to-be-profitable-and-isnt-now/comment-page-1/#comment-1267</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Could not agree more with the points about fare collection and the effects of free parking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could not agree more with the points about fare collection and the effects of free parking.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Mulligan</title>
		<link>http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/why-transit-used-to-be-profitable-and-isnt-now/comment-page-1/#comment-1266</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Mulligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/?p=335#comment-1266</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting to note that the Las Vegas monorail is an epic failure. People use cabs, and there is free parking at every Casino so you can drive between them as easily (and cheaper if you have a rental car) than riding the monorail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note that the Las Vegas monorail is an epic failure. People use cabs, and there is free parking at every Casino so you can drive between them as easily (and cheaper if you have a rental car) than riding the monorail.</p>
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